Curse

Sting · May 31, 2005, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Make all classes worth having by itself. Before everyone jumps in and says all classes count all you have to do is look at the typical group make-ups

2-3 Monks
3-4 W/?? (usually W/Mo)
1-2 E/?? (depending on how many Monks and Warriors)
0-1 "support" class Ranger, Necro, Mesmer (only if their isnt a secondary skill in the group already).

People can say they matter all they want but most groups dont use these types of classes (at least them as primarys) and most are almost dead against them being added to the party or just leave outright. Im not asking for an "Uber leet" classes just these "sopport" classes given a little boost so that they can stand on their own in HoH (personally I just want to see a little variaty in group make-ups). I personally run a R/Me (IMO the funnest classes to use, but after waiting around for 30-40 minutes for a group and another 5 listening to everyone complain to the leader about inviting a Ranger into the group the fun is to few and far between). I shouldnt have to play a monk, warrior or Elementalist to enjoy the game or be an equel part.

kalaris · May 31, 2005, 06:12 PM // 18:12

So basically this is another Buff rangers/Necros thread?

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you, Necros are at a harsh disadvantage in PvP because their primary Attribute, and most of one of their spell lines (death) cannot be reliably used in PvP but they still make it work.

And Rangers are at a disadvantage because Their pet and everything they have with it is almost as uselss as soul reaping.

But to make them cease to exist would suck =P

Another thing you have to be concerned with is unles you buff up the primary attribute for Rangers and Necros' then anyone who's Secondary class is Ranger or Necro also gets the bonus... thus putting you in the same place,

Sting · May 31, 2005, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalaris

So basically this is another Buff rangers/Necros thread?

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you, Necros are at a harsh disadvantage in PvP because their primary Attribute, and most of one of their spell lines (death) cannot be reliably used in PvP but they still make it work.

And Rangers are at a disadvantage because Their pet and everything they have with it is almost as uselss as soul reaping.

But to make them cease to exist would suck =P

Another thing you have to be concerned with is unles you buff up the primary attribute for Rangers and Necros' then anyone who's Secondary class is Ranger or Necro also gets the bonus... thus putting you in the same place,

Yeah I guess it is another "Buff" the classes mentioned. Most agree these classes need a boost (unless your one of the rangers who claim to be able to 2hit people or able to take on 2 or 3 wariors with a monk and win

).

Not wanting the classes to disapear just the concept of "support" classes.

And yeah it would have to be a primary skill of somesort.

Oziamus Amadi · May 31, 2005, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Now I don't usually jump in on threads like this but after trying out lots of different combinations and reading this...well hmmm it got me thinking.

What would be the awnser here? I mean let's say if the game didn't allow you to pick a secondary but I dunno diced up the skills a bit to let you build the way you wanted. For example types of warriors, certain types of healers with the monk, types of rangers/scouts, types of casters with ele and so on.

The problem with that is that some class type would always be on the bottom and it would horribly throw things out of wack.

I guess the only other option would be to give players a reward for picking a certain primary. I dunno a special set of skills or something prehaps.

Oh I don't have any of the awnsers lol...I've just been reading the forums a good bit these past few days and it seems like someone can always find something wrong with something. And that in itself isn't a bad thing because people deserve the right to question the way things are and how they work. All I'm asking is what do you guys think the awnser is? Either way GW rocks!

westwood · May 31, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

lets just remove all the classes and just have a single skill, well call it attack. and if people start abusing it well just have to remove it aswell.

seriously, just play the game stop worrying about bobby sue and dave from down the street are doing.

Sting · May 31, 2005, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by westwood

lets just remove all the classes and just have a single skill, well call it attack. and if people start abusing it well just have to remove it aswell.

seriously, just play the game stop worrying about bobby sue and dave from down the street are doing.

Ah very contructive LOL.

toastgodsupreme · May 31, 2005, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by westwood

lets just remove all the classes and just have a single skill, well call it attack. and if people start abusing it well just have to remove it aswell.

seriously, just play the game stop worrying about bobby sue and dave from down the street are doing.

quoted for truth

seriously... the classes are different FOR A REASON

if you don't want to play a necro, don't... granted, you don't get the looks, but hey, you can always choose ranger or necro and then play as your secondary

Kaleban · May 31, 2005, 10:02 PM // 22:02

well, I have been a lurker here for a while. I generally get a RP build up to about 13 or 14, then switch because I thought of a new roleplay build.

In my humble opinion, Rangers and Necros, with Mesmers coming in a close second to the tie, have the most interesting roleplay value.

And in the end, while GW focuses on PvP at the highest levels, for the first 17 or so many people like to roleplay. In fact there are guilds out there that have no interest in PvP at all! Imagine that?

But all things being equal, the poster is right in that Necros and Rangers do not "pwn" in PvP. But perhaps that's because the problem is not the people that pick these classes and may even play them well, its the people that comprise the majority of the game world who want instant gratification and the strongest possible character.

Here's a good example. I have a Monk/Warrior. I roleplay. I picked this combination because it suits a character concept of mine. Plus, he looks cool with the /dance command. I COULD have gone Warrior/Monk and received better armor, and probably have "pwned" more in PvP, but that was not my concern or intent.

I have a feeling that most of the people who play Necs and Rangers are aware of their perceived underpowering in PvP, but maybe they don't care? In the end, no matter how hard you try to balance a game, if there's no winner it becomes bland. The whole concept of timing and countering is basically rock/paper/scissors, and while in Situation A Warrior beats Elementalist, in Situation D, Ranger beats 2 Warriors.

My conclusion? Just have fun, play what you like, and let the devs iron out the imbalances, if there actually are any. Sure, a Necro cannot insta-kill every other character on the battlefield, but he'll be able to curse and destroy their ability to fight so that his team can win, therefore you don't NEED 3 or 4 Necros on a team. A Ranger can do large amounts of DoT and spread damage out with traps, pet, and preps, and how many nature rituals do you really need? Maybe the fact that you need only one of these kinds of characters is the reasons why there are so few?

Sting · May 31, 2005, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

quoted for truth

seriously... the classes are different FOR A REASON

if you don't want to play a necro, don't... granted, you don't get the looks, but hey, you can always choose ranger or necro and then play as your secondary

Ah I understand now these classes were created so People like myself who dont want to play a warrior, monk or elementalists can sit around for hours waiting on a group. Thx for clearing it up for me.

Niare · May 31, 2005, 11:34 PM // 23:34

You know...instead of waiting for hours for a group to come along and pick you up, how about making a group instead?

Red Locust · Jun 01, 2005, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Most people think mes/necro/rangers suck because they are not nearly as easy to play as war/ele/monks. In a way, it's the right thing to do. If you're in a pug, the odds of that mes/necro/ranger being any good are slim, while the odds are better if you pick a war/ele/monk. However, you'll regularly see guilds use a mesmer or necro (or ranger?) in their builds, since a well-played one can be very strong.

rii · Jun 01, 2005, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Rangers and necros are pve classes, me, el, wa, and mo are pvp. Take their skills, and put them in pve instead of pvp. notice how they now kick ass. Vice versa for other classes, e.g. me.

Cymboric Treewalker · Jun 01, 2005, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Wow...

First I played a Ranger/Elementalist to 16 and never once had a problem getting picked up for a group...

I am now playing a Ranger/Warrior and people are always shocked at the damage output that I produce... I need to get the toon higher and then it will get sick.

I think every class is STRONG if, and ONLY IF, the team you are with understands your class.

Personally I hate being on teams with typical warriors that want to take on the entire other team one-v-one.

Doesn't work... just doesn't.

Spura · Jun 01, 2005, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Great discussion about how support works in pve.

Sting · Jun 01, 2005, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niare

You know...instead of waiting for hours for a group to come along and pick you up, how about making a group instead?

Same problem Ive tried that most see a Ranger starting a group and wont join. So me and buddy (who plays a Monk) when were on at the same time have it so he will try and start a group. The same people who turned me down accepted "his" grp. And if we asked to merge with a larger group well they would boot me as soon as we joined (about 1/2 the time).

toastgodsupreme · Jun 01, 2005, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sting

Same problem Ive tried that most see a Ranger starting a group and wont join. So me and buddy (who plays a Monk) when were on at the same time have it so he will try and start a group. The same people who turned me down accepted "his" grp. And if we asked to merge with a larger group well they would boot me as soon as we joined (about 1/2 the time).

Do you have a crap reputation or something?

My Mo/W NEVER gets turned down for invites (I send "Mo/W14 LFG for *whatever*. I'm Healing/Tactics"). I get invited within a second or two after.

My necro, similar situation. "N/Mo19 LFG for Augury Rock. Minions/Blood (or whatever the **** I'm running at the time)".

I get invited fast as all shit. People who've played with me, LOVE me. I get compliments all the time with either my healing or with my necro and her army holding the bad guys at bay and holding their agro.

Monks love my necro, and everyone loves my monk.

I don't see why you're having such a problem. Switch districts and broadcast again.

Edit: I do admit that a ranger or mesmer is the last class I'm usually looking for in a team. Then again, I practically never SEE many mezies running around. I've yet to team up with a ranger who didn't suck ass (last night, ranger running with a vampiric bow, pissed me and the other monk off as he didn't swap weapons while we did long runs between mobs).

No wait, I take it back, there was a ranger who was R/E. The guy rocked. But he's been the only one (he used both pet, ele fire skills, his bow, and a few ranger skills {creature that makes arrows move faster, and another skill i forget}).

When you LFG, make sure you state what the hell you're qualified at. Makes you more desirable. Also helps identify you as someone who at least knows their character.

Mercury Rivenswift · Jun 01, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

Do you have a crap reputation or something?

My Mo/W NEVER gets turned down for invites (I send "Mo/W14 LFG for *whatever*. I'm Healing/Tactics"). I get invited within a second or two after.

My necro, similar situation. "N/Mo19 LFG for Augury Rock. Minions/Blood (or whatever the **** I'm running at the time)".

I get invited fast as all shit. People who've played with me, LOVE me. I get compliments all the time with either my healing or with my necro and her army holding the bad guys at bay and holding their agro.

Monks love my necro, and everyone loves my monk.

I don't see why you're having such a problem. Switch districts and broadcast again.

Your Mo/war never gets turned down......go figure. That is one of the best classes you fool. Pay attention to what is being discussed. Try getting invites as a ranger.

Mystical · Jun 01, 2005, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

Most people think mes/necro/rangers suck because they are not nearly as easy to play as war/ele/monks. In a way, it's the right thing to do. If you're in a pug, the odds of that mes/necro/ranger being any good are slim, while the odds are better if you pick a war/ele/monk. However, you'll regularly see guilds use a mesmer or necro (or ranger?) in their builds, since a well-played one can be very strong.

Bingo. If you look at the Guild of the Week over at Guildwars.com, they have about 2 or 3 (4?) primary Rangers. Granted they mention they play other characters too, but they stick with Rangers.

Try being a beginner to HoH, being honest about it and being a Ranger. Try finding a group then :P.

toastgodsupreme · Jun 01, 2005, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Rivenswift

Your Mo/war never gets turned down......go figure. That is one of the best classes you fool. Pay attention to what is being discussed. Try getting invites as a ranger.

*looks at title of thread*

"Do Away with the Support Classes!!"

Sorry, I thought my monk was a support class.

Yup, with the way I'm spec'ed right now, I'm full support. Go figure.

You seemed to totally ****ing ignore my talk about my necro not having invite problems. That was the way from day 1. In any mission area, my necro was never made to wait long for a party (1 minute tops, that's like, 2 broadcasts

).

Spura · Jun 01, 2005, 05:38 PM // 17:38

monks are not support they are healing.

Besides everbody talks about pve. In pvp ranger owns quite a bit with the right setup.

It is not true that only a few play rangers on guild of the week. 2-3 per guild? What do you expect? They only wrote about 8 people. 2-3 is a lot. Try finding people who play necro on guild of the week. 0 or 1 per guild usually.